I don't get it.  I'm 43. Each time I go out I have an instant date. Today this Russian, first approach of the day. Super cute, I think in her 30's. Within 45 minutes we've build up from gentle touch, hair carressing then walking hand in hand and I'm looking for an opportunity to kiss but I figure let's wait until we're near her hotel so we can jump in straight away, since she doesn't want to come home for 'just a steak, movie and some youtube'.

My hypothesis was that I'm so successful with instant dates (and women not flaking for a day 2) because they feel too safe and I'm not a sexual threat enough so I throw in a remark about how I'd like to kiss her breasts and just to see how far I can go at one point I ask did she ever visit a dark room and did she ever fuck a horse. She's comfortable with me saying that kind of shit, giggling and all. Then a lot of fluff talk, then back to some deep report about childhood, family, then later in front of her hotel she just sends me away. I go 'yeah that's probably better' and keep a bit of convo, then build up again saying how crazy and great an adventure it would be if this became a verys special night, but then she actually goes in after having said she's emotionally overwhelmed and she finds me great and attractive (her words) but no it can't happen.

At 1 sarge day per week and 1 or 2 such experiences per day I'll reach 100 unsuccesful dates later this year.

Is there anybody, anybody, who might be able to give a clue why this shit is not working for me? And is this really working for other guys?

How many unsuccesful dates did this take for you to start getting some success? What's the longest streak of non-sex dates?

For the rest I'm up and ok with myself the world and women in general after yet another failure so yes that's gain.

Later this week I'll do another one but tips are welcome.

By the way what I always, always, do is when a girl actually takes effort to give you feedback on where you screwed up (or why she'll not be able to see you again) send a humble "thank you, I learned something" text back even when I know it's game over. It's easy for a girl to just go silent but it displays character if she takes time to communicate such thing. Also it establishes her perception she was not in a position where she was tricked by a sleaze, but merely in something that didn't work out. So a nice text to you and a nice text back and both happy.

So as I was sarging I noticed this guy talking to this woman and it looked completely like some pua interaction. I figured he's on a sarge, he was looking extremely good and she was too. So I backed off a bit and watched the interaction, since I don't know any PUA's (except Yad whom I met with for a few days), then afterwards i went up to him and asked him if he just met her. He told me yes, they just got into conversation with each other and then they talked for 20 minutes.

I asked him Did you take her number in the end. The guy looked at me completely confused, no clue what I was talking about. Her number? Sure I told him she would have given it. Why would I take a number from her, he asked, it was just a nice conversation and that's that, I don't need her number.

So that's how it is when you have 'the looks'. It's not really encouraging but definetely funny in all it's sourness for a struggling guy like me.

Pfeew there's some bad vibe going on here in the board.

However i think it's significant. Maybe an overlooked aspect of daygame is the entire scope of dealing with negativity, bitterness, really feeling shit about yourself and the world, the perception that 'probably girls will spit on you' or 'other people will probably try to screw your brain' and 'daygame is for those awful HAPPY people who are POSITIVE (puke)).

If you come from a background where this is reality this is a very very hard long mental process to grow over and to actually learn that being a bit positive and happy is not a bad thing or even feasible ("how can I be not-negative with MY lack of success!).

I know this because I'm such a case. Most daygames that I know who are succesfull (yad, tom) have at least nice relations with their parents. Obviously they had a phase in life where it didn't work out with girls and friends but at least they had some base of support, which gets kind of implanted in the brain no matter what. Then all it takes is some fix-up and courage and skills. For the real fucked-up guys it takes much more work (sorry Tom T I bought your book and I can tell you you were NOT a fucked up case like real fucked up cases)

If I'm correct (and I'm willing to bet a pound) you had no such nice supportive background which makes the entire process harder for you.

I'm sorry to give you another prefab wisdom of life, but either you are going to dig yourself out of that fucking hole you're in or you're going to stay in there. It's possible. Do it.

I'm not interested can mean "I'm not interested right now".

Even when she says she has a bf or 'enough people in her life' just tell her something like this:

"You know what I've got an idea, let's put each other in our phones and then we're just 'that person in your phone' and who knows one day half a year from now you'll be in the mood to get out or something. Or maybe not. You know what give me your number and I'll text you once (and once only) and we'll see"

After this sounds a bit too 'chitty chatty' and while I'm already typing her name on my phone (but before I do the actual number swap!) I look her in the eye straight and say casual but dead serious "...anyway it's just sex... (continue typing her name...silence count to 1..2...3) .."you know... or a coffee or somethning ... whatever". Don't sell it, just mention it.

So in the last 2 days I did 3 approaches, no warming up or anything, leading to 3 instant dates. I've become so cool and relaxed in that it's ridiculous. Still after that something 'doesnlt happen' and I need to figure that out.

The first one I just eased into light sexual male/female stuff conversation then stuff about courage and how we're all 'glued to our social roles' then after half an hour 'in' using the 20-80 rule, I told her we should get a room. Of course she rejected but the conversation railed to another topic nice and smooth, there was one hand touch a while later, I figured let's walk to my tram stop during which we'll pass a hotel and there I'll go for the kill. She walked with me but then split because she was actually heading another way.

I guess this particular conversation was too much 'drop the bomb' escalation wise.

Then this other girl I took for a tea, made her laugh once, then also some male/female conversation but I couldn't escalate. I mean not for lack of courage (I'm not afraid to say let's fuck, or just to go for the kiss or whatever) but it felt the 'vibe' wasn't there. So I tried 'zooming in' on sexualisation of the subject from a more relaxed way by asking "what kind of men do you fall for" pointing at some guy "something like him?" then took it from there but it kept feeling like ploughing.

In the end I took the number but no real escalation had occured.

So damned if you escalate and damned if you don't. Damned if you make the vibe all about sex ('needy') and damned if you don't ('fog talk (Friendly Old Granny'). I see Yad chit-chatting on these video's which in my case would feel fogtalk.

How the hell do you guys do that?

Again: i have no problem going up to a woman and ask her if she wants to be my lover as an opener. When I do that, I keep the tension with silence, then after she responds I bring it down to regular convo (observational stuff) etc. This is not an anxiety issue, it's really calibration.

So how do I calibrate this? Go through the date with nice chat versus go through the date aiming for wild sex in the toilet.

Good note to self: I finally seem to have resolved all resentment and ugly bad feelings, I'm kind of proud on that. Also I'm much more outcome independent, I actually practised NOT getting the number just to prove myself I can feel good after that anyway. I figured that was a nice experiment to see if any woman will flip the script but that didn't happen (tried it multiple times) so that was not an end goal in itself.

Instead of flakes I get more and more dead serious messages like this one, after a 10 minutes approach, I called her HBElectricity because the conversation wat about sex and male/female stuff within 4 minutes or so and very intense:

Me: "How bout you coming over, I'm baking that steak tonight"

She:

"Hi [blabla]

About meeting, I am not sure if this could be the good thing for me at this moment ... [blabla] Have a good time abroad..."

I mean why don't they just flake? I keep getting these questions am I married what do I want out of a relationship and I keep mentioning I'm past that life phase, not available. Then comes "all men just want sex so I don't date" and my reply is "I just want sex and you're here with ME so what's up with that", I'm kind of explicit about that. I make it kind of a funny ball-bust but it's not really.

I mean I'm doing everyhing to avoid these 'serious' signals but they keep being picked up and then they don't want to give up their sex because they feel there's 'more to get' which leads to blowing up the interactions.

Frankly it also makes me feel shit to know I'm playing with all those ... feelings. Bleh. I just want a woman who likes sex and doesn't give me that eternal vulnerability. What to do?

The part that is totally overlooked PUA wise is the hurt women have. I don't believe shit any more of those 'happy and loose sex encounters'. It hurts them to be used, they try it once or twice early 20's then start to protect themselves at 25.

I think a proper man, let's say dateable age, around 30, who has his life in order should have no problem finding a quality girlfriend within a week (7 days of sarging). I would consider finding a quality girlfriend much much easier than a quick fuck with the same level of quality girl. A quick fuck is for girls up to 25 or so, adventurous and all, but after that they want boyfriends and nesting. For that the man needs his mind in order, his objectives and his courage and his posture. In the end, around that age, they all worry and want babies and stuff. If you want and are able to play bastard you can use that to your advantage but it takes the twinkling (implied) promise of a relationship (personally I think that's what Tom T radiates, disclaimer I don't know him personally but he looks very ... serious baby-able material). Most single quality women have been disappointed in that and start to avoid quick lays at one point in life.

There's no better aphrodesiac than an man telling a woman (and meaning it!) "I'm shopping for a woman to have babies with" in the first part of the conversation. That's how I got my kids all right (got 2). It was the first time ever I excersiced that level of directness in life, I meant it, it happened.

I always assumed PUA was about getting laid without getting the ties though

Here's my personal position:

I consider myself not a succesful PUA because I sadly don't "bring home girls to f-close". However, a good sarge day (you know the days, a day you're on the roll which is when it's sunny, you're well rested and good spirited) leads to a harvest of one sometimes two dates. Days when things are not 'flowing' lead to zero. 'Flowing' days are 1 in 3 I'd say'. The difference is in general between a killer day and a wasted day is when I have a hint of being tired (like after work). Well rested does it for me. Tired is a state where I cut off all the impressions from the outside world and hybernate mentally. (Excersise for that is to go to central station extra tired with its total overload of that stream of people and impressions, everybody in a hurry, total electrical shortcut, and break through that. But that's a different story.)

I always aimed for same day sex, yet I?m not a wall-slammer. Couldn't even do that since I need foreplay these days

I hardly ever (let's round it off to never ever) have number closes that work out if there's not an instant date first, but as said on a well rested day I score a day2 or two. One in 3 of those leads to my house. In general I don't attempt number close any more if I don't "feel" it's solid, I always go for the instant date. I typically don't sarge 7 days per week. When I'm off for a while, the first sargeday is shit (0) then the next one is the typical double-instant-date day. Sometimes when the excitement is off I stopped pushing myself and I hardly approach which is ok. On a typical sarge day I approach 5 girls solid but I preselect enormously.

I never seem to be able to fclose when the girl is in my house first time. Big frustration. Moreover I force a breaking point ('sex or not') which always leads to a no but also a total kill of any further options with the girl so there's no second time.

I found out the nicest and most beautiful girls I took home actually just want a bf, be appreciated and loved, they just want a guy they can like and with whom things can grow. I screwed up quite a few of those because I've been just not looking for that. If I would have wanted a gf, yes, I'd have that part of my life fixed by now multiple times. Some were even explicit about that. Some of the remarks I got were explicit:

"(after kissing and makeout): god you're fast, I'd like to see you again first" (I refused to take her number to make her decide then and there, which face-off I lost)

"You did everything right, how the hell did you do that to make me end up here, but I can't have sex with you. You can choose a makeout now or have a walk with me later tonight in town" (made out, lost the girl)

"I can't have sex with you like this. That's crazy" (why not? - because that's just ... crazy...)

"I'm looking for a boyfriend" (mind you this was not a desparate case, she was ... hmmmmmm!)

etcetera.

This week I decided to change a few things. Took a girl home (she's 28, I'll be 43 next week) and gave her some foot massage. Then I stopped and told her "listen you're the boss and any further initiative will have to come from you fuck and sexwise". Then progressed making a meal and having a relaxed evening. My main objective was to make her leave the house with a good feeling about herself, me and the evening, regardless of sex or not. In the past I worked up girls to the breakpoint, the evening got killed by me pushing and she rejecting and that was it.

She ended up telling me she?s looking for a friend, me telling her she can?t be my gf, still the atmosphere stayed very well, had to work her out of the house to sleep. She ended up leaving with "Let's just be friends and who knows. I think I?ll keep you at bay" with me responding "In the end you'll need to keep yourself at bay, we can be company, if you try hard maybe my friend as long as you realise I'm not an enuch"

All very explicit negotiation.

So the newest thing in my world: relate. Yes, I'll try building up friendships that turn into something more. New territory for me. The difference between this and the ?lets just be friends? of when I was an insecure guy is that in current scenario I have no problem to throw in the regular request "Can I suck your titties" (to speak with Yad). So even when there's no sex, I'm not a castrate and she knows it.

To conclude, yes, I definetely think this PUA stuff can work. When you're younger it can work faster than in my case because yes, age changes the stats. Then again I'm not a student in some room any more, I have a life story, houses, cars, developed world view and am less led by my dick and more by ?needs for intimacy? which conflicts with my refusal to go steady monogamous with a girl.

My story is not congruent with Yad's but I think there's the age difference here. He's targeting up to 10 years below his age and that leads to girls under 25, 30. I target another age group, I need a woman not a girl, which unfortunately also complicates matters.

Sorry for the lenght of the post and the occasional contradictions in it but I think it paints a right picture.