few things on my mind

[paradise]

How does one get the same success if not more success then goodlooking guys like Ollie Pearce(who has been on a podcast and works for PUA training as well as being a model)?

First of all, i don't mean too much disrespect if any, it's just i'm using him as a example as he is the only model i have met before.

A few years ago i did a one on one shopping trip with him in London. But the thing is though, he often picks out the same clothes for alot of his clients. I went to a one day event shortly after and lots of guys were wearing the same clothes.
We spent alot of time in Topman and he got me buying checked shirts and dark jeans etc. That was all very well, but i could have just gone in the store anyway and bought them without paying him ?60 a hour. I ended up getting items that were too small for me and a waistcoat that was damaged. it was the only one left and he recomended that i should get it. Why? Damaged.

I have actually had negative comments from both guys and girls about some of the clothes i got with him. "That don't suit you" comments etc.

Also he seemed to make the time drag so that he would earn more money(toilet breaks,phone calls etc). The very fact it looked like we were going to go over the time(which was 5 hours), made him say about being payed more money, even though it was only going to be around 10 minutes.

Also we got some things from one end of the street and walked to the other end later, but after a while he said about going to a certain store to get something else. But that store was at the other end of the street more or less where we were before. We could have gone in there the first time round.   Again just to waste time. He also had some tacky wristbands and wanted ?30 for them.

I have also heard the same thing from some other guys.

I suggest not having a one on one with him and to go shopping with some female friends instead. This is obviously just my opinion and based on my time with him. He could have just been having a bad day. From reading over posts some guys have given him good feedback which is fair enough. Im just being honest and as i said , i don't mean any disrespect to anyone. It's just everyone has the right to free speech.

Speaking of money, because he is a model and works for pua training, i bet he earns heaps a month. Wouldn't surprise me if he gets ?30,000 plus a month. And 98% just because he is goodlooking. I wouldn't mind being a model myself as well as a few friends of mine. One of which has tryed lots of times to get work, but gets turned away and sometimes even laughed at because he is simlpy not genetically goodlooking enough.

I bet i do more work then he does and i get less then ?1,000 a month.







Ok so this guy is really goodlooking with a good body. And he is a natural.

I think it will be really hard for guys who aren't naturals just to get up to his level of skill, if not impossible. That goes for any other natural as well. The very fact he is a model obviously means he gets to meet alot of female mdoels and has a social circle based around that. Now this is just getting up to his level of game, let alone the fact he is miles better looking then me. I just don't think a not goodlooking guy who is not a natural will ever even match his success with girls, let alone have more. Also if a guy like me isn't a natural, then thats not my fault. But it seems unfair that i have to pay money for training etc when naturals don't have to. So ollie for example not only saves tons of money because he dosen't need training, but he earns a hell of a lot more money then most in the first place.. And he gets loads of girls and i don't. So there is a very good rerason why he is likely to be very happy at the moment and im not.


When i did my one on one with him i asked him if he had a girlfriend. At the time i had had one my entire life. I obviously expected him to say yes. He said he was dating around 7 girls and they were all hot. In fact at any one time it wouldn't surprise me he he dates around 7 girls. and i bet the main reason is his looks. Even hayley dates him and told me she thinks he's hot and said it in a very excited way( as if that was one of the main reasons she likes him). In fact i had to resort to do training and i trained with hayley. Of course being my trainer, nothing would had happened between us. Point is though, i had to pay for her company, ollie dosent and ollie gets layed and i don't. In fact i end up getting ignored and then blocked. I bet ollie isn't blocked and i bet they are still dating..

At the time,kezia was still working for pua training and we talked about her for a while. He told me that she fancied him. So it wouldn't surprise me if he's had success with kezia as well.

i have bipolar and i can't help but be jealous of it. I have never layed anywhere near as hot a girl as her.

Anyway Ollie was bragging his arse off about his success with women and confirmed that he gets alot of girls into him because of his looks. I of course told him my success and thats when the bragging started, In a subtle way, but bragging never the less.

Its always guys like him who get the girls just because he's goodlooking and over confident. I should have 20 girls on the go at any one time because i'm just as good as him  and so are alot of other guys. It's just alot of girls are shallow.

As for getting fit and having a good body, i have man boobs which im trying to get rid of. It is hard and takes ages for me to loose weight. At the moment i have a shoulder problem which don't help me do chest excersises etc.



Ok back to the subject of paying for training. Andy started out working for PUA training on the computer side of things right. Because he was working for the company he got to sit in on bootcamps for free. I did a bootcamp back in november 2008 and thats when i first met Andy. He had quite bad aa at the time. A guy called richard was training us on some daygme.

Ok not long after he got tons of one on one training by adam lyons etc, all likely for free. And thats why he has great game now. How do i get to his level without lots of one on one training? I'm not paying thousands, afterall he got training for free. And of course with this site, he still gets a hugh advantage over most guys, what with the guests coming in to do the podcasts. I bet they don't just come in, record it and then leave. No they prob stay over and chat or go out for a meal and get lots of info which helps his and yads game ,and which is more underground material then us listeners get to hear.

They could ask all sorts of people like kezia questions etc, which if the likes of us wanted to, we would have to pay ?100 plus a hour.

Now i mean no disrespect here, all im saying is, how do we get as good game if not better when these guys are getting access to more information etc.

I want to know what the main good thing yad does to get layed. There must be one or two stand out things he does etc. I would just like to know that and not pay ?800 on a bootcamp.

Did yad just approach and figure it all out himself or did he get training as well?

I mentioned i did a PUA training bootcamp, but it wasn't very good.

I have bipolar  which dosen;'t help with all this, so sorry for the rant

[Rob]

Hey mate, that was an interesting read. I dont know anything about this Ollie guy but i strongly agree that it is much harder for a natural to teach this.

I dont see how a natural could teach as they have never really been in the same situation as the students. For us 'un-naturals' learning all of this from scratch is such a long journey of failures, rejections, humiliations and constently facing our fears which a natural probably never had to go through.

I really dont think any PUA company should employ a natural as not only have they not gone through all the shit we have but it would be harder for them to teach all of the concepts.

Either way, hang in there mate. I know this is hard and sometimes i fall into slumps myself but if you are dedicated to this all the hard work will pay off in the end. You will learn sooooooo much about yourself as well as grow hugely as a person in the process, which no natural will understand.

[paradise]

He dosen't teach game. he is just a fashion adviser and a model.

[Rumba!]

Wow,
Thats a lot to digest! You seem to be quite upset over your makeover session so lets deal with that first. I've only met Ollie once and he seemed an ok guy to chat to. However I'd never pay a guy who's a model to pick stuff out for me as models can wear things that look good on them but on other guys, don't hang well.
Also avoid females as they tend to want to see you in stuff THEY like, not what suits you (I speak from experience!! ). I'd suggest looking at some mags such as Esquire or GQ and seeing what appeals to you and then go and get a similar look from High st shops (unless your wealthy, in which case you can buy the originals from the mags! ). Another option is several stores have fashion consultants who ask what you are after and then will bring you stuff to try on. The service isn't free but they deduct the cost from any items you purchase!
As for your rant about natural male models getting girls then, YES they would have an advantage. However what has that got to do with how you get girls?
I get the feeling that your letting the fashion trip effect your own mood. Typing away about how lucky Olie is to be good looking and getting girls and boasting seems to be dragging you into a spiral of negativity. The same with Andy.
SNAP OUT OF IT!! Tomorrow go and talk to a girl, then another, then another!!...Sitting here bleating about stuff you have no control over isn't going to get you talking to girls, so forget Ollie and go out and have some fun yourself!!
Tough love bro, but get your arse on the street and meet girls!

Peace,
Rumba! 

P.S. Chest exercises only make man boobs worse as you increase the muscle mass under the fat. Keep to a low carb diet, and up your cardio (My best mate's a Personal Trainer, and he just told me this!).
 

[MMH]

I'm not sure how relevant it is to mention this but tbh so long as you're fairly well groomed and take care of yourself properly, meeting and picking up girls on the street shouldn't be that much of a big problem. I have managed to meet girls on the street and end up with their contact details while wearing a death metal t-shirt, but otherwise dress fairly decently. I don't feel the need frankly to change my dress sense as its good enough for me.

[paradise]

I'm not sure how relevant it is to mention this but tbh so long as you're fairly well groomed and take care of yourself properly, meeting and picking up girls on the street shouldn't be that much of a big problem. I have managed to meet girls on the street and end up with their contact details while wearing a death metal t-shirt, but otherwise dress fairly decently. I don't feel the need frankly to change my dress sense as its good enough for me.

I would consider myself goodlooking. Ive been rated a 8 before but more often i get a 7,so not too bad. all my posts i write for other peoples benefit, not just for me.

Do you think a average or even below average looking guy will ever have the same success as ollie or any other really goodlooking guy? Mind you i'd only say ollie is a 9 anyway.

Do you think  his success is more down to the fact he is a natural game wise or because of how he looks? And i mean genectically in the face etc, not just fashion

[paradise]

Sorry, i meant to quote Rumba's last post

[MMH]

You can edit posts if you make a mistake.

Anyway I don't see why not. Frankly looks are a good initial advantage but not the be all and end all and even an attractive girl can, for me, put me off if I think she's an idiot. Plus I have on more than one occaision seen a man who I think most people would consider ugly, with an absolutely stunning girlfriend. Plus terms like 'ugly' are fairly subjective anyway. Some women like men who are more rugged, others like them in suits and as successful businessmen, some like arty/creative types - I don't need to patronise you because the same probably applies to you in regards to women, right? I'm sure there's a certain archetype that you're particularly fond of.

It may surprise you but not all women want a clean cut, muscley model type of man. In fact I have even heard about a fair few girls fancying Bernard Black (main character in Black Books). Lets be honest, look at his character - scruffy, misanthropic, aggressive and completely lacking in charm, yet I am aware of women who actually say they kind of fancy him.

I'm not saying use him as an example of your behaviour, but at the end of the day, you shouldn't go around comparing yourself to other people. No matter how good I got on the guitar, there will be people who are better than me, if I developed my painting style into something better, there will be other painters out there who are better than me. But I don't worry about it, because as long as I am satisfyed with who I am then why should I?

At the end of the day you shouldn't use other people as a means of emphasizing your shortcomings. Sure you probably have some, in this case with women, as do I, but thats why I am here. I am not here to become Andy Yosha, Tom Terero (hope I spelt that right), Krauser, La Ruina or anyone else - I use their advice to improve myself with the opposite sex but I don't see the need to compare myself to any of them.

Find out what your niche is and go along with that, stop blaming other people or looking at them and going "I'll never be as good as them." Maybe you won't but if you can attract the women you want then who cares? Maybe you will be, maybe you'll be better.

[MMH]

And incidently when seeing some of the girls on Krauser's blog, most of whom are frankly, gorgeous - it doesn't make me jealous (well aside from the Brazillian waitress), but it just inspires me to get better and gives me extra drive to save up the cash to move from my hometown and also to get some practice.

And to add to the above, a fair few girls have described me as 'handsome', but I still have problems - it just means I get some good looks but in the past it hasn't guaranteed sex. If you don't know how to advance to it then it doesn't matter how good looking you are anyway.

[paradise]

Cheers.

Also what is your take on the last part of my first post?

[MMH]

Stop thinking about what you don't have and think about what you DO have, namely a lot of comparatively cheap literature resources as well as an entire website (and if you include Your Charisma Coach, various blogs etc) with hours of Podcasts, a fair amount of articles, a good chunk of videos all for free and I'd say you have a lot to go on.

Besides even people who have attended bootcamps still make stupid mistakes. You keep talking about what you DON'T have. I don't have a million pounds nor do I have a girlfriend right now. I'd like both but what I DO have is the general advice to go about maybe getting the latter or working towards it, and in addition I have a family and also friends who would do anything for me, I am creative and fairly happy with who I am.

Watch a film called Happy-Go Lucky and look at how she goes about her life. Sure the main character can probably be annoying to some people and I suppose having bipolar disorder makes things difficult/different, but with or without dissabilities, life is always difficult anyway. Thats part of the fun.

All I can think of about bipolar disorder is Stephen Fry also has it and feels like an underachiever so you may never be able to entirely shake it off, but doesn't mean you can't make the most of whats there anyway.

[paradise]

Some great points.

I do need to work on body language and sub communications. Ill write a post about that soon.

[Charleston]

I've never done any live training and I would say that most of the money that I spent on resources (DVDs, ebooks etc.) was, in retrospect, largely wasted.

The one fact that anyone trying to sell you PUA stuff wants you to forget is that the vast majority of the population gets laid without spending any money on ebooks, DVDs or live training. They may not get laid often or with the best quality women (remember though, some do), but if you look at any PUAs pitch, they will make it sound like unless you use their specific product, you will not get laid ever.

The story for me is that I basically spent a year being an absolute loner, spending more money than I would like to admit on DVDs and ebooks, trying a couple things out and never getting anywhere. The saddest part is that that was my first year of university. At the end of that year, I could count my uni friends on my hands and the number of girls I kissed was 0.
Luckily, I think that shitty ass year gave me some good lessons, primarily that all the money I had spent had got me nowhere.

The best things, it turns out, are free (or at least pretty cheap). Second year I built up a decent social circle just by joining a couple of societies, got experience daygaming by first going out with guys I met on this forum, then just by myself, I got myself some good female friends, I took up new hobbies, I limited myself to only free resources (mainly the daygame podcast), I learned to meditate from a free podcast (really recommend for inner game), I read lots of books and watched a lot of movies to make me more interesting and provide some good role models.

[Rumba!]

Do you think a average or even below average looking guy will ever have the same success as ollie or any other really goodlooking guy? Mind you i'd only say ollie is a 9 anyway.

Do you think  his success is more down to the fact he is a natural game wise or because of how he looks? And i mean genectically in the face etc, not just fashion

In a word: YES! Having good looks and being comfortable around women is a great combo, however I personally know guys who I would describe as average at best who have dated some STUNNING woman, and I'm talking models, singers etc..based purely on the amount of time they spend approaching women on the street, in bars, clubs etc..
These guys are fun, cool guys who make everyone feel good when they go out. They like to travel, they have a wide range of interests, all of which are appealing to woman.
When guys ask if they should spend money on DVD's or bootcamps, I tell them that if they want to spend money on something that will give them success with women then they should spend it on something that will enrich their lives, like a trip to somewhere interesting or on something like a comedy workshop, which I took and which was the best thing in improving my interactions with girls, that I ever did.

I was on the train a few days ago and there was a group of girls sitting opposite me, looking at a fashion magazine. As they flicked through the pages, they were asking each other what they thought of the male models in the adds. Not ONCE did they agree about who they thought was attractive.
Ollie may get hot girls but I'm sure there are a lot who turned him down, as he simply wasn't their type. If you put Ollie at a party with, say, Tyler Durden and kept count of how well they did, I know who my money would be on!!


Be a fun, social guy who's relaxed about who he is and where he's going in life and you'll do well!

Peace,
Rumba! 

[pfirter]

i'm no expert at daygame, so let me say that first when i suggest that i've notice in the community as a whole guys who are starting out seem to try to jump too far ahead of their skill level. i've seen guys going online for dates, or approaching gorgeous girls at clubs when they have no clue how to have a normal conversation with normal everyday people. i don't see how you expect to have a good date or a high pressure interaction when you can't even get everyday people laughing at some funny shit.

some great advice sasha had was to set a goal to get 3 people a day laughing. i've been doing it because i think it's great advice but i also have been very social the last 3 years and it's not too much of a stretch for me. i imagine that most guys starting out may have to work on this, but its a good milestone to figure out where you are at. if you want a daygame approach to go well, YOU HAVE TO HAVE GOOD SOCIAL SKILLS - plain and simple. and that takes work...put in the work and you will be able to go out without a coach to tell you what you need to do. there is enough video content on here and on sashapua to see the logistics to see the framework to work around and to do a beautiful approach. 

as far as style, i've been going to gq, details, askmen, and esquire mag websites to see what's new - they have so much fashion content that it'll give you a good idea of what will work for you. i don't think anyone could really pick what'll work for me, i'm super picky and if i don't feel comfortable then i'll look weird no matter how cool it is.