the dubious ethics of in-field footage

[handy andy]

this is just thinking out loud, but i followed a link from here to another guys PUA racket and its rammed with in field footage. he makes a deal about having 'proof' of lays. now this i find to be creepy as fuck.

it's one thing i guess when people (like this site) approach a girl and film it - morally dubious perhaps to upload it on the net and have uber-geeks (as they would probably see it) study it on net, but its not the end of the world. i always wonder if the girls ever find out, and how they'd react ? i'd imagine they might find it kinda creepy and some could conceivably get angry about it, but still its just them talking to a guy in a shopping centre or whatever.

but the guy with the 'proof' actually takes pictures of girls going into his house, getting undressed and even one of her asleep in her undies. now that is creepy as fuck. its like they're trophies or something. i was kind of shocked as in the modern litigation crazy world surely you'd be leaving yourself wide open for a lawsuit with that kinda schtick ?

[spinaroonie]

OP is referring to www.justinwaynepua.com

[handy andy]

think it was a different site, but could be wrong. like i say, it's not the end of the world, but did just make me wonder how the girls would feel if they found out.

[liquidskeleton]

well, he'd have to get their permission, legally. like when guys film their approaches, they have the girl sign a waiver afterwards....

It would be very unsettling and in poor taste if this guy puts them up w/out permission...

[craze6663]

this is just thinking out loud, but i followed a link from here to another guys PUA racket and its rammed with in field footage. he makes a deal about having 'proof' of lays. now this i find to be creepy as fuck.

it's one thing i guess when people (like this site) approach a girl and film it - morally dubious perhaps to upload it on the net and have uber-geeks (as they would probably see it) study it on net, but its not the end of the world. i always wonder if the girls ever find out, and how they'd react ? i'd imagine they might find it kinda creepy and some could conceivably get angry about it, but still its just them talking to a guy in a shopping centre or whatever.

but the guy with the 'proof' actually takes pictures of girls going into his house, getting undressed and even one of her asleep in her undies. now that is creepy as fuck. its like they're trophies or something. i was kind of shocked as in the modern litigation crazy world surely you'd be leaving yourself wide open for a lawsuit with that kinda schtick ?

so u either are a complete scam and are lying about all the girls you sleep and probably a bad coach..or your a creep....I would give my money and learn from the guy who is a "creep" and sleeps with a lot of women..than a guy who claims it with no proof, after all you have to understand this is a business, if they have to risk being sued, so be it...also ANYONE can go out and get a phone number, that's the easy part..making the number solid, figuring  on ur logistic and landing the girl is where you separate the boys from the men..

[handy andy]

[/quote]

so u either are a complete scam and are lying about all the girls you sleep and probably a bad coach..or your a creep....I would give my money and learn from the guy who is a "creep" and sleeps with a lot of women..than a guy who claims it with no proof, after all you have to understand this is a business, if they have to risk being sued, so be it...also ANYONE can go out and get a phone number, that's the easy part..making the number solid, figuring  on ur logistic and landing the girl is where you separate the boys from the men..
[/quote]

well i'm neither a scam or a coach (heaven forfend). just to clarify that one old chap. and i would personally take the third option (which you have failed to list) that involves not spending a penny on coaching/products and buying myself some decent threads instead. honestly, having seen some footage lately i;'m certain guys would do better with girls if they learned to dress right, but that's a story for another night kiddiwinks.

[craze6663]

well i'm neither a scam or a coach (heaven forfend). just to clarify that one old chap. and i would personally take the third option (which you have failed to list) that involves not spending a penny on coaching/products and buying myself some decent threads instead. honestly, having seen some footage lately i;'m certain guys would do better with girls if they learned to dress right, but that's a story for another night kiddiwinks.

not you lol, i mean  coaches, if they dont show proof they are scams and that's how this "community" works, and that's the business...and from what I know, from experience, your exterior is about 10% of "the game"...the best thing is not to buy ebook or audio tapes or w.e...its the bootcamp, take one very good bootcamp (from a good company ) or personal coaching (again from a good coach)...that is the best and wises way to spend money, this isnt an opinion this is a fact.

[handy andy]

the best thing is not to buy ebook or audio tapes or w.e...its the bootcamp, take one very good bootcamp (from a good company ) or personal coaching (again from a good coach)...that is the best and wises way to spend money, this isnt an opinion this is a fact.

well it is an opinion, and not one i share. i'm sure you'd learn a lot from a bootcamp or coaching, but how much are they - ?850 for two days ? sorry to the site here, who im sure run the best around, but that to me is crazy. i mean you could take that ?850 and go to barcelona for a week and practice yourself every day, whilst living it up on holiday. just you and your will power - nowhere to hide. whilst enjoying the sights, sounds and sangria of a cool and vibrant city.

whilst i'm sure the guys at daygame.com are great (they at least come across as normal chilled guys, which in itself is refreshing in this racket)- a lot of this shit is fairly straight fwd when you strip it down. you see a girl - she moves you. you speak to the girl and try and charm her. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. the more i think about it there is an emperors new clothes angle going on with all this PUA stuff. there's a point where it's either going to come from you or not. and no amount of coaching, books, in-field footage, podcasts and assorted kitchen sinks are going to do much for you unless you're prepared to take action yourself.

[craze6663]

the best thing is not to buy ebook or audio tapes or w.e...its the bootcamp, take one very good bootcamp (from a good company ) or personal coaching (again from a good coach)...that is the best and wises way to spend money, this isnt an opinion this is a fact.

well it is an opinion, and not one i share. i'm sure you'd learn a lot from a bootcamp or coaching, but how much are they - ?850 for two days ? sorry to the site here, who im sure run the best around, but that to me is crazy. i mean you could take that ?850 and go to barcelona for a week and practice yourself every day, whilst living it up on holiday. just you and your will power - nowhere to hide. whilst enjoying the sights, sounds and sangria of a cool and vibrant city.

the best way to spend money in the game is by a a good boot camp...point blank you could disagree but that's not gonna make it false

oh yea they are VERY expensive heres the thing about going on and just learning on your own....if you are lucky enough,you learn it quickly could take a month could take years.....go ahead go to Barcelona not know what to do..go approach women not knowing how to keep a conversation, go and try "chatting" up girls, striking up a conversation in an apologetic matter and not knowing how to lead it to the bedroom...the structure  is important to learn and you know what path to take it through

whilst i'm sure the guys at daygame.com are great (they at least come across as normal chilled guys, which in itself is refreshing in this racket)- a lot of this shit is fairly straight fwd when you strip it down. you see a girl - she moves you. you speak to the girl and try and charm her. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. the more i think about it there is an emperors new clothes angle going on with all this PUA stuff. there's a point where it's either going to come from you or not. and no amount of coaching, books, in-field footage, podcasts and assorted kitchen sinks are going to do much for you unless you're prepared to take action yourself.

kind of.....but here is where a bootcamp makes it's money..the bootcamp after teaching you all model or w.e it is they teach..they push you out on the field and criticize you, they give you the feed back on the spot, they sharpen you as much as possible...someone who knows exactly what to do..telling you what you are doing wrong...

[handy andy]

well i guess it all comes from your own personal starting point. and to be honest, craze old chap, you've made a few assumptions on mine there. really what you seem to be saying is that you have to seek guidance from the external world to facilitate change or learning within yourself. i dont believe that to be the case. i'm sure if i took a bootcamp i'd probably improve, i dunno, 25%.  fair enough, but i'll be honest i dont see 'daygame skills' or whatever as the goal, i see the women as the goal and the fun of approaching them as a kick in itself.  these camps i think are good along the same model as the old 'give your friend ?50 and get him to give you 10 back every approach'. you've invested financially, so you have to approach. same as if you pay ?850.

yes you will improbe your 'daygame skills' on these camps, and that will probably improve your chances of getting women, but that shit can also come from yourself, being a cool guy and having a decent life. not knocking what they are teaching here, and good luck to anyone who chooses that path, but i still think a few structural/technique tips gleaned for free and the balls to take action is all you really need.

[Rumba!]

yes you will improbe your 'daygame skills' on these camps, and that will probably improve your chances of getting women, but that shit can also come from yourself, being a cool guy and having a decent life. not knocking what they are teaching here, and good luck to anyone who chooses that path, but i still think a few structural/technique tips gleaned for free and the balls to take action is all you really need.

There are pro's and con's to coaching, but the same can be said of just blindly going out each day and not improving. Bootcamps/private coaching can be VERY expensive (though mine isn't!  ), and there is always the issue of the infamous "coaching high" wherebye guys are inspired after it, but then have a run of poor approaches/get busy with something else etc..and then feel that the money they spent was wasted. Some guys though take time to take onboard advice regarding what they've been taught and then all of a sudden..BANG! They're on fire and everything just "clicks" and they don't need to think about openers/DHV's etc, it just all flows natural. I was taught by an instructor from "RSD" who was awesome and his advice was simple: "You are enough!" Now that was straight forward but it was only after being pushed into sets, again and again, each time with excellent observational advice, that I finally worked it out and was just myself.
Now just saying, "I'll take some free advice & just approach dozens of girls", coupled with a strong belief in yourself will definatly get you results but unless you are a natural at this (in which case you probably wouldn't need to be on this site) the chances of you just improving, and improving all the time with no setbacks are slim.If you have an issue or sticking point that you can't seem to overcome, then having someone who can identify where you are going wrong can be invaluble as although great forums such as this one, can help, without actually seeing you inteacting with a girl, it can be hard to see what needs to be addressed.

Peace,
Rumba!